Things that shouldn't have to be said

[nonelvis]

I probably shouldn't make this post, but I am, because I have had it.

I do not care if you don't like Steven Moffat's work. I do not care if you don't think he ships Doctor/Rose enough, appropriately, or at all. I do not care if you don't like River Song. Fandom is large and diverse, and we will never agree on everything. That's perfectly normal, and doesn't bother me in the least.

What I hope we can agree on is that it is absolutely not okay to refer to Moffat as "Herr Moff" or a "TV!Hitler" simply because you don't like his episodes, his characters, or what his plans for the show might be. I don't care how much you say you were "kidding"; it isn't funny. It will never be funny. Hitler killed millions and millions of people; nearly six million of my people alone. My thesis advisor had a number tattooed on her arm, and a pair of legs permanently damaged by the Nazis who ran her over for fun. A showrunner who doesn't share your preferences is not remotely similar to the genocidal, megalomaniacal dictator who ordered these deaths. Not even close. Suggesting such a thing even in what you think is a joking manner is disgusting and utterly reprehensible.

If you are one of the people in question, don't even bother trying to comment here. I banned you the moment I saw that thread. There is only one thing I want to hear from you anyway: "I'm sorry. I did something foolish, ignorant, and offensive. I won't do it again."




*By the way, if you are friends with the people who made these comments, please know that I don't judge you for being friends with them, or hold you responsible for their behavior in any way. They are responsible for themselves.

Comments

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

THIS, A THOUSAND TIMES!

[nonelvis]

Thank you, and thank you for linking to the post.

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

Any time. I wouldn't want my friends list to go on thinking that there's any decency left in the world.

[nonelvis]

Wait, I'm sure there's some around here somewhere! Hang on, let me go check under this rock ...

[jigglykat.livejournal.com]

Just... wow. So much agreement, and it makes me sad you had to make a post to point out why it's wrong. I know you mentioned it, but seeing it actually used makes me feel so dirty and UGH. So much fail.

[kalleah.livejournal.com]

it makes me sad you had to make a post to point out why it's wrong

Yep.

[nonelvis]

I probably shouldn't have posted anything at all, but like I said, I'd kind of had it.

[nonelvis]

I have to say, the fact that someone has to say this at all is what upsets me the most.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

i am drawing wee crayon hearts round your face right now.

[nonelvis]

Aw. I ♥ my hearts.

[iko.livejournal.com]

Yes.

Unfortunately, I don't think they are going to apologize because it sounds like they have no concept that they did something wrong. (The whole "too stupid to know any better" comes to mind.)

[dietcokebreak.livejournal.com]

The whole "too stupid to know any better" comes to mind
I agree. How could the original poster think that using the term "Herr Moff" wouldn't be considered an allusion to the Nazis? If that wasn't the intention, then what the hell was?

Well said; rock on!!

[nonelvis]

I think it was the intention, but they thought that it was something okay to joke about. Which: NO.

[nonelvis]

Sadly, I think I agree with you. I would be happy to be proved wrong, however.

[unfolded73.livejournal.com]

Well said. (I just caught up on your posts about this.) I can't decide what makes me angrier, the original comments made by the people in question or the weak and transparent backpedalling from those comments.

[nonelvis]

It's pretty bad all the way around, really.

[risti.livejournal.com]

Yes.

Not much else needed to be said, here.

[nonelvis]

Thank you.

[syzygy-lj.livejournal.com]

You know who should be compared to Hitler? NOBODY. I don't care if he's a showrunner who doesn't ship your favourite characters enough, or a President whose policies you don't like. Unless they order genocide, YOU CAN'T GO THERE.

[nonelvis]

You'd think this would be obvious. Apparently not.

[mischief89.livejournal.com]

Thankfully I didn't know anyone in that thread. That is utterly disgusting! I have met people that survived Concentration Camps so to see people so easily equating a producer to Hitler is just horrible.

[nonelvis]

I agree; it's an appalling lack of perspective.

[spikewriter]

What. The. Fuck?

Compare a show-runner to a genocidal madman just because you don't like the direction he's taking the show? Talk about lack of perspective or a sense of what is and is not important.

[nonelvis]

But it's okay because they were kidding, see? *eyeroll*

[spikewriter]

Oh, it's quite clear they see nothing wrong with it. Looking at the other comments in that thread, they are bitter New School fangirls who clearly think the show should be a shrine to their beloved Ten. It's fannish entitlement at its worse, the very type of thing that makes the Old School fans point their fingers and say, "Told you the Tennant fangirls were nuts."

Is there a way we can just lock these people in a room with the bitter Old School fanboys so none of us will be embarrassed?

[nonelvis]

I have to say, a steel cage match has a certain appeal to it.

[biichan.livejournal.com]

This. So much this.

PS Why have I not friended you yet? This seems to be some weird oversight. I will fix that now.

[nonelvis]

Thank you. (And am about to friend you back, too :)

[radiantbaby.livejournal.com]

Wow, just wow. I'm sad this post even had to be made. There are no words. :(

[nonelvis]

Yeah, the fact that someone had to say this at all is what upsets me the most.

[profrobert.livejournal.com]

I don't really have anything to add here, but I thought it would be a good thread to unveil this new icon.

[nonelvis]

Excellent choice.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yeah, as you know michellemtsu referred to Moffat as 'Herr Moff' in a comment on T&C as well. After being alerted to it us mods screened it and told her comparisons to the Nazis were not on. Apparently, we weren't meant to take it as a comparisons to the Nazis even though 'Herr Moff' is a reference to him being a 'TV!Hitler' or some such.

Yeah, how is that not a comparison to the Nazis? I'm sure a bit confused about what else it could be.

Anyway, none of that shit is allowed on T&C and will be smacked down if spotted by a mod.

[nonelvis]

Oh yes, I know about what happened on T&C, because I'm the one who reported it. (Which I certainly don't mind saying publicly.) I really appreciate how quickly you and the other mods dealt with the complaint.

I can't imagine why she thinks this is something appropriate to joke about. Well, I can imagine it, I suppose, but not in any way that's charitable towards her or her friend.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I know it was you, but I wasn't sure if you wanted it out there. We keep comments on Page-a-Mod screened so people can report something without getting any potential grief for it.

I wasn't aware the chick had made further comments about this until I saw your post linked on my flist and now I'm grumpy. I have a sense of humour, yes. I also have a sense of decency and perspective and history.

I sense I shall have to make a mod post about what is utterly not approproiate when Moffat's new series approaches. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of this.

[nonelvis]

I knew this person had made other comments because when I saw her initial comment on T&C, I went to her LJ to see if she was German, on the off chance that "Herr Moff" was simply normal use of an honorific. I really wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, but nope, she and her friend really are being that breathtakingly ignorant.

I wish I could say that a mod post about what's appropriate during the Moffat series wouldn't be necessary, but sadly, I think making one is probably the right thing to do.

[swordygardener.livejournal.com]

The Hitler-comparison? Annoying.
People thinking that anything german = Nazi? Also annoying.

Someone should tell these people that "Herr XY" is a common way to refer to a german male in a polite way.

Rather nice to see them not just make genocidical comparisons, but assuming that german way of addressing = evil. But then, since people greeted me with the Hitler salute when I visited the United States, I shouldn't be that surprised at this kind of ignorance.

[nonelvis]

People greeted you with the Hitler salute here? That's appalling, and I'm sorry you received such a poor welcome to the United States. Not all of us assume that anything German = Nazi, but I certainly don't blame you for being annoyed by those who do -- it's grossly inappropriate stereotyping.

[swordygardener.livejournal.com]

Five years ago, yeah - it was on a student exchange. Some of the American students were not all that educated about germany.

And no, I didn't mean to imply that I thought all Americans thought like that. That'd be equally silly on my part. Just...some apparently do, and it is annoying me a bit. If you want to portray people as Nazis, at least have the courtesy to use Naziranks or something, they sound more evil, anyway.

Not that portraying people as Nazis is particularly clever, when all they did was leading a TV show in a direction you dislike. Geez.

[profrobert.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, it takes one idiot to make one forget the 999 reasonable people you meet on your travels. I'm also sorry that was your introduction to the U.S.

I will say, though, that being incredibly dense is something one can encounter anywhere in the world. About 15 years ago, I was at a wonderful, multi-cultural seder hosted by a Jewish woman and her black, Unitarian husband. Among the guests were a gay couple, one Portuguese, the other German, and a couple of the latter's friends from Germany, a very sweet couple in their early 20s. After the reading of the Haggadah during dinner, one of they young Germans remarked, "You know, we have never been to a seder before. We don't know any Jewish people in Germany."

No one said anything, and they would doubtlessly have been mortified if it had been pointed out *why* that might be. But it goes to show you that the incredibly stupid things people say stick with you.